Does Passive/Versatile Mean More Work

[Guest Steve]

When I first started escorting, back in 1999, I was top ONLY. I found that most clients wanted fucked anyway and I was never keen on being passive. I used to panic about condoms breaking. Well in 11/12 years I have never had a single breakage, I've been very lucky. I would get fucked if he was top and I fancied the pants off him and looked a good fuck (selfish I know but I was a lot younger than I am now) About 5 years ago (after a 2 year break) I came back and launched myself as Versatile. I did find that I could do more work. When I was top only, 90% of the guys expected a cum shot and I was loathed to squeeze in a client beforehand if I had an advanced appointment in. If I'd not fully recovered from ejaculating I found it hard to be top again 30 minutes later, especially when the next client expects you to fuck them and be rampant the minute he walks in. Last year, after a 6 month break, I returned again and leaned more towards being passive. This has been a huge success for me, over half want to fuck me, especially the married men whose menu at home doesn't include anal and loads of guys want to put toys and fingers up and watch me enjoy the sensation before fucking me. I found that only 20-30% of these guys want you to cum. Once they've come that light switch goes off and they wants showered and away as quick as possible. I've also found that I can slot in quickies much easier if I know they're looking for oral or to fuck me because it's unlikely they're going to want to wait for me to cum on one of those appointments. On my quickies I actually state that I won't be cumming during a quickie.

So back to the question, does Passive/Versatile get you more work than top only. I think it does. I know loads of guys want shagged but I find the passive appointments (where they want to fuck me) to be much easier.

[Chris]

Of course I wasn't describing the whole area as rural, just the surrounding counties in Northern England.

But the same can be said about any city in the UK. 20-30 mins outside of Manchester and you can be in North Wales or the south Lakes. 30 minutes outside of Birmingham and you're in the cotswolds. I felt the picture you were painting though about the area was that we're cheaper up here because we're not as cosmopolitan and have clients on below average earnings. It's simply not true. I think many of the issues you have with the area stem from only being here on short tours and not actually being here full time building up a client base. As I said earlier. I might see may 35 clients month, but maybe 5 of them are new. The other 30 are guys I have built up who see me regularly because I am available most days. I am sure my experiences of Manchester would mirror yours of here because I wouldn't have an established client base who call when it's convenient for them and not when it's convenient for me.

[SleazyMichael]

Well James - you certainly started a healthy debate - which I wont join - as I can only speak mainly for London!

[Guest Steve]

That's fair enough, I just felt a bit insulted by your reply at the time, having only worked up here, I can't say I've actually noticed what you see when you visit the area and about 30-35% of guys I see don't even live up here, they're passing through or on business in hotels. I certainly don't think homosexuality (repressed or open) is any different here to other areas. I don't agree that there is a much lower exposure to/prevalence of homosexual lifestyles in the far north of England either. I personally felt that although you didn't want to describe the North East as "backward", your comments about cashflow etc did exactly that. I've been to worse places than Newcastle in my time and although I am not awfully fond of some places around here like Middlesbrough, I don't think the prevalence of gay men is any different here to anywhere else in the country,

[James]

I think people are a little over sensitive.

I've been "making out" what I say (read my words). There is no hidden agenda that needs explaining.

It is just my observation that there is a slight but noticeable difference in the type of clients I see in the different areas.

Maybe this can be put down to traditional attitudes as to gender, family, etc? Or demographics? Like I said, I can only speculate. Business was pretty good out of my place in Stanley last month - after a day of nothing, I had four successive days with 2-4 decent paying jobs each. Only had to turn down requests to bottom twice.

[Guest Steve]

Steve - please not you asked for a response to your question - you got one from James -

Hello Michael

I was more annoyed, like Chris said, that this area was being portrayed as some sort of rural hick town. It's bloody well not. There are far worse places to be working as an escort, as the recent riots showed. It's the 6th most populous metropolitan area in the UK and one minute James thinks we're all penny pinching smog monsters from Middlesbrough and the next minute he's agreeing that Hexham has a high concentration of millionaires because he's done one of them, so what's it to be, Millionaires or Misers. Mind you, I've never done a millionaire from Hexham but I've seen a lot of other rich country gentlemen in the area. I would have agreed with his analysis if he was talking about Inverness in North East Scotland but not Tyneside.

I've never worked in your metropolis of London or Manchester, I have only ever worked in Newcastle with occasional tours to Edinburgh and I have never been short of work. I have loads of regulars and pride myself on being one of the better escorts up here, however if I did small tours to Manchester, like James does to Newcastle, I would expect to encounter all of the timewasters and penny pinchers too because I don't have first hand daily experience of the scene in that area. Most guys, working in a different area on tour, will encounter all of the no shows and tossers that the local escorts know to ignore, these guys only have an outlet to timewaste again with people who are not wise to their antics and that means the new kids on the block. I know from advertising myself in Edinburgh on occasion that my phone will ring and he'll want tonight, even though my tour says it starts next week (they never read the advert) and then book for the following week and fail to confirm on the day. They had no intention of booking for the following week. Guys usually want sex now, not a week on Thursday, it's on their mind now. Yes I do get advanced appointments, I had one last night, pre planned for days but if you have limited availability in other areas the punters don't always read the small print and you end up getting messed about.

[Chris]

but I find your response 'We're not that backward up here for gods sake. Never heard anything so ridiculous in my life' to be over the top and dismissive - but hey James maybe I am being over sensitive!'

Michael... James was unfairly making out that we're some sort of rural backwater up here, we're not !!!

[SleazyMichael]

"So back to the question, does Passive/Versatile get you more work than top only." - OK I am going to do a David Dimbleby - shall we get back to the original question!! - it seems to have been 90% about north west north east sexual preferences of clients!

Speaking for myself - a voice from London - since I started in Nov 2004 at least 80% of my clients have either been married - are married - in the closet & approx 80% of that group love to be dominated/fucked.

This leaves about 20% who like versatile sessions - and that suits me!

I much prefer being versatile when I am escorting or not - although if I have been going through a lot of 'topping' with clients - often I quite enjoy flipping the other way when I am in a sauna.

'Variety is the man2mancum of life' - my quote!

DOH - back to the friggin question! - for me offering both has definately got me more bookings - and it amazes me that there are a SIGNIFICANT minority of 100% passive escorts that do well - although from my observation the more successful ones seem to be 'twink/slim/young' AND GOOD LUCK TO EM!

[SleazyMichael]

ABSOLUTELY!! - Ben you always get to the point!

[SleazyMichael]

Wow that was quite a mouthful - but also interesting - you should also note that James may appeal to a quite different client base - advance booking - don't remind me! - last year I spent what nearly three months networking in Dublin - had a list a mega list of advance bookings - I even gave advance details of the hotel - in a very good location - then what 5% turned up - never again!

[SleazyMichael]

Steve - please not you asked for a response to your question - you got one from James - OK we may not agree on all opinions expressed - but I find your response 'We're not that backward up here for gods sake. Never heard anything so ridiculous in my life' to be over the top and dismissive - but hey James maybe I am being over sensitive!

Saying that I can't agree or disagree with James, as I mainly work in London - but I have observed that in London at least TV/TS escorts are in big demand - for a similar reason ie men - in the main married want to kid themselves that they wont get the gulit complex or that they are not REALLY gay/cock lovers - by shagging 'a chick with a dick'

[SleazyMichael]

Hija James - I have always found your input on the forum very informative and thought provoking - really interesting your comment: "I think this may have to do with the much lower exposure to/prevalence of homosexual lifestyles in the far north of England. Instead of wanting to try being a gay man (or indeed being one himself), the regular hetero client is more likely to see you as a female replacement." - fasinating! - UM the north south divide?!

You have always had a good common sense approach - well done

[Guest Steve]

I do the preparation as part of my normal daily routine. I too find that a lot want to be fucked. I usually start off with a butt plug toy and then move onto the real thing, most guys seem apprehensive when faced with a small butt plug toy but I do explain to them all that taking a full size cock for the first time is likely to be a painful experience. I ask most clients in advance what sort of service they are looking for and I store my regulars in the phone with a (P) or (A) next to their name so I know well in advance what they're likely to want, especially if you don't hear from them for 6 months.

[Craig]

Working as an escort I'm also top only, dont mind the clients playing with my arse but thats about it. It saves a lot of time not having to do the necessary preparation thats involved with being fucked. Its a decision I made years ago after being fucked hard by a client and physically suffering for weeks afterwards.

However when working in porn I'll top and bottom. I find that as a bottom in porn I'm much more in control, plenty of time to prepare, can stop when ever I want to and the tops are much more responsive to my needs.

Being top only as an escort hasn't lost me much work...think I've only had 2 clients leave when I said I dont get fucked..even though I made that clear when the booking was made.

I agree with Chris, I also find that most guys want to be fucked rather than the other way around. Seems to be one of their fantasies to be penetrated and become the passive, almost, feminine figure.

[Chris]

I am top only, I can't physically be fucked because of an operation I had 20 years ago, so I tend to pass Steve's number onto guys who want to fuck someone, similarly he passes my number on to guy who want a dominant guy because he can't do dominant. I find though that most guys want fucked than to fuck

[RuffRugged]

I think being versatile fully will bring more business I personally started out vers and was fucking guys and I have notice that many gay men are passive. Since I have stopped fucking due to not staying hard enough I gave up as I was leaving clients unhappy but saying that I had a guy 2 weeks ago who said he wants to be fucked and hes totally passive I explained I am not a top and said I don't want you waste your money and think will should leave it and he paused and said Ah it don't matter I come over and where have some fun so he did. just sucked each other and cum over he chest etc but being top helps very much in more business. A client ask me day 4 yesterday at his home so tell me about escorting and I mentioned I don't get fuck that much he said your a liar I can't believe that I said yer they cum before they get a chance too lol. Had so many hour meets but end up 15 mins max.

[James]

Hexham has one of the highest concentrations of millionaires anywhere in the UK.

I know. I was on top of one of them last month. But unfortunately, he was in a blindfold and it was his friend doing the hiring. I think I missed a trick somewhere.

[James]

Of course I wasn't describing the whole area as rural, just the surrounding counties in Northern England.

My experience of the area is that mobility and wealth is just about the same among the small elite, and of course the gay clientele. Many of the older client demographic - urban and non-urban (and this is quickly disappearing in the younger generations) seem to display what you could describe as the village mentality. Much like what is/was said of Sheffield, but with even less mobility.

Elsewhere, I find that not only have the mainstream moved around a lot more, but even the stories I hear from the older generations are noticeably more detailed and debauched.

Now, that's just an observation - culture (still) changes at different rates - or at least the effect is still visible. I'm not attaching any value judgement, other than: some areas are easier to work because of differences in their native culture and distribution of wealth.

[Chris]

I think what you need to take into account is this. It's not a guaranteed income, you can have days with no work and if you'd have a quiet week with no work and some bloke offers £40 for the half hour instead of £50 I think most of us would take it. I think it would quite silly not to.

I am quite fortunate that most of the people I see are regulars with maybe 4-5 new guys every month. I don't do this work as a full time job and so the work I do supplements my other income.

You also have to think about how flexible this work is compared to other professions and how well paid it is for very little outlay.

As for the slanted view of the North East. Northumberland itself if quite remote but there are 880,000 people within the Tyneside Metropolitan Area according to the office of national statistics. The 6th Largest in the UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyneside so it's a bit misleading to say it's rural

Newcastle, itself has a gay village, not just one or two one gay nights at the local quiet dive trying to drum up trade, there is quite a diverse range of people live up here and I have always done alright escorting. There are about a dozen 4 star hotels in the city centre alone and they're full almost every night. That's hotel rooms full of potential punters.

I don't think any of the clients I see view me or any other Newcastle escort as anything other than a male escort, they're certainly no less Neanderthal than any other guys I've met throughout the country. Being in Manchester or London doesn't make you more cosmopolitan and more open to new gay experiences.

There are plenty of rich queens around here, they don't all live in Cheshire. Hexham has one of the highest concentrations of millionaires anywhere in the UK. It's so affluent that Waitrose even opened a branch there, way way outside of their catchment zone.

[Guest Steve]

Well James, I used to be the same and I have about 15 years on you. Good on you if you can have a lower ceiling on what is acceptable, I used to do the same but as I got a bit older I changed my tune. At the end of the day, I could easily turn down £200 a week from having a lower ceiling and that money is better off in my pocket than anyone elses. I am not a sleazy rent boy, disease ridden or pimped. I am a nice respectful guy who owns his own house outright and does this for a) fun b) a flexible lifestyle c) a reasonable standard of living. When I think of my friend Jackie working in the Co-Op for £250 a week I think, gawd, that's two quickie's a day. She thinks she's well paid. I know I am well paid !!!

[James]

By the way, what I have noticed about the Lothian/Edinburgh clients (from a mixture of travelers and visiting the area) is that they do NOT count their pennies as the stereotype suggests, nor are they as tight as Northerners. I don't have much experience of Scotland as a whole - Strathclyde is probably cheap like most of Northern England.

[James]

I have images now of stacking straight guys to come through my door for £20 handjobs.

Having worked in both areas, and always refusing work under £50, I would be exposed to cashflow problems far more often, I guess.

And yes, it is the rural north of the country and North East England that present these problems more often, hence my concession rate in that area. The amounts I get in North Lancashire and Cumbria are similar... I actually have to convince them that my car consumes £15-25 worth of diesel to get to and back from these locations. And whenever I return to the North East of England, the number of "sorry, not this time, skint" messages I get is striking. We are talking £70. £90 is hardly ever a problem anywhere within a 20 mile radius of Salford, and I am often tipped an extra £20-30. I don't think it has everything to do with average native wealth, but rather the pattern of wealth and attitudes towards spending - which appear to be noticeably different. As we know, Manchester isn't a hugely affluent area, but like most major cities, it does have a usefully distorted pattern of wealth - a large business class and many business travelers. There is also a large class of gay men with disposable income in Manchester, South and West Lancashire and Cheshire. Unlike the rural far north and North-East, a huge chunk of my North-West income comes from "bona-fide" gays who have moved to my area, or are traveling at the time. The few gays I see when I visit Newcastle have no problem at all with money, but with the majority of clients, you do not get the businesslike treatment you can expect in the major cities. For logistical and financial reasons, my income tends to drop by a quarter.

Generally, I will only pre-book three of five days in advance when staying in the North East. Most of my no-shows come from "now" bookings, wherever I am based, and not the long notice bookings.

When I say "female replacement", I do not refer necessarily to a replacement hole to fuck (that is incidental). It is the case, however that ethnicity, wealth, class and region do correlate roughly to different attitudes. The poorer and more marginalised, and the less urbanised the culture (I subjectively identify a client with), the more I feel that I am viewed as a subject. Yes, they are interested in the male body and genitalia, hence the choice of a male, but they are ultimately transposing their dominant heterosexual role instead of receiving a service.

The differences are general - say a 40% or so swing from active to passive when I provide an anal service to ethnic minority clients or straight guys in non-urban areas/N-E England, and besides curiosity there is little purpose in explaining them.

[Guest Steve]

Categorising like this is a natural time-saver but the logic is obviously flawed. To make money and stay sane you we should only judge each client on his own merits.

Exactly. It's rare I say no to any client. If they've got money in their pocket Ben and I have time I will do the appointment. I had an asian guy a few weeks back who was a nightmare on the phone, I had to text my address because his English was so bad but when he turned up he was a delicious floppy haired mid 40's Imran Khan. He was a pleasure, extremely clean and fun to be with.

As I touched on earlier, I used to be that peer who snarled at escorts offering cut price gigs. Then I seen that there was money to be made. I don't think any of us would turn down an extra £400 a month would we. This is how lucrative the quickies can be !!!!!! and most of them are in maybe 6-10 minutes. I am lucky that I live in a discreet area and own my own home, I can offer incalls at any time and I am sexually very versatile. Weekend before last I had family staying two days, I took the Friday and Saturday off to get beds ready, chill wine and prepare lunch. They text and said they'd be an hour late arriving so I was just sat in the garden chilling a bottle of wine in the ice bucket for my guests arriving at 1pm. Two guys phoned within 20 mins of each other for a quickie. I did both of them and that bit of extra cash paid for my contribution at the pizza place and pub later that evening. Had I not seen them, someone else would. First was in 10 mins, second about 4 mins.

I realise the traffic of quickies is not to everyone's taste, I am lucky that where I live no one looks onto my front door so I get away with it. I don't think any of those quickie guys see me as a cheap alternative to a woman, not judging by the dirty talk anyway.

[Ben Manchester]

I find it's many of them that want to be the female replacement judging by the amount who turn up wearing their wife's knickers.

ROFL!

I think we all see our own slices of a community and, whether we mean to or not, have a tendency of categorising people into easily manageable groups. It can't really be true that all straight men are after a female replacement for example, or that all Asians wish to barter, but when we meet a lot who do we subconsciously start to look for similar behaviour in others of the same group.

Categorising like this is a natural time-saver but the logic is obviously flawed. To make money and stay sane you we should only judge each client on his own merits.

[Guest Steve]

I'd also say that my clients from the North East of England tend to have far more problems with cashflow, discretion/accommodation and simply turning up to incalls. Unsurprisingly, I wouldn't choose the region as my main area of work! Still, this isn't me describing one area or ethnic group as "backward"... just culturally different and harder/easier to work from a commercial perspective.

We've all still got whippets and go dog baiting on a Sunday morning down by the Ouseburn too. James I simply don't agree. I've never known cashflow problems, I have always been busy and I have a lot of good regular clients. Fortunately unlike others I do tailor my services to the pocket of those that can and can't afford to spend loads of money. There are escorts out there that turn their nose up at the likes of me for offering cheap quickies. Yet they account for just a small percentage of my income. I will admit, I was one of those people. At one time I wouldn't even do half hours. A close friend of mine (female I may add) used to advertise in the Sport. We went out of lunch one day and her phone was non stop, she would tell them the prices and if the prices didn't suit then she would suit their pocket, her outlook on this work was, well if they've got £20 they can come but they'll get hand relief and that only. At the end of the day the £20 was better off in her pocket than anyone elses. I decided to adopt that policy into my own work and I'll tell you what, 4 quickies a week pays my shopping bill, food for my cats and a good few bottles of wine. I've had countless arguments with people about it thinking that I am selling myself short and thinking that the work in the area is so desperate that we have to charge lower prices. We don't !!! I meet lovely guys on the quickies. One really horny white van man sees me every week. That £80-£100 a month from one bloke who is in maybe 6 minutes each time (if that). It's nothing to do with cashflow, he delivers to a local shop and I do him when he's passing, usually on a Tuesday lunchtime.

The only thing I don't do is overnights but I get many many 2 hour appointments, visits to offices, dinner dates, I even do truck drivers at truck stops if they phone and book me and I don't think they''re any different to anyone else outside the area. Most of my outcalls are from visiting gentlemen from outside the area, most of my incalls are local guys. I live near two massive financial institutions and many of my local clients work for one of the two companies. I am nice and handy for lunch times and after work. A lot visit me on their lunch breaks I don't think the level of surplus cash/diversity is any different here to anywhere else.

Your experience of the North East is that there are far less gay men. I rarely see gay men. Gay men don't tend to book escorts because it's quite accessible for free via Gaydar, Manhunt and Grindr. Most of my clients identify themselves as bi/straight or open minded and the reason they come to a gay male escort is for bloke2bloke contact not a subsititute female orifice. There are over 300 female escorts in Newcastle, if they want a substitute woman there's plenty of it about from £20 to £200.

As for problems with cashflow, this is the same the country over at the moment, as for turning up for incalls, I would say I have had about 5 no shows all year but what I would say is this :- I did a few days in Edinburgh in January. Out of the 8 people that booked in advance, only 2 turned up and I took 4 more over the 3 nights. As you're only available up here for a few days a every now and again but advertise on many boards as Newcastle, I think the problem you encounter is possibly because clients by nature don't look at the small print. They think you're probably available here all the time and you'll know from experience they'll say Oh yes I will book you when you're next up and you'll not hear from them again. The sheer sexual nature of men is that they want it now and not in 2 weeks time and being available 3 days every 6 weeks probably it doesn't fit in with what they want. I always feel that an escorts job should be to work around the client wherever possible, afterall they're the ones with the cash and we're the ones supposed to be on call. When I was in Edinburgh in January, I started advertising it on squirt as early as December 15th and although it said Tour Jan 11 to 14th I had them ringing up on New Years Day asking if I could accommodate in Newington. Then they'd say, oh yes I'll book on the 11th for definite after work at 5pm and that's the last you'd hear from them.

I've never met one guy who thought I was a substitute woman. That's a statement I wholly disagree with. I am a big hairy bloke with a thick goatee beard, hairy back and chest, rugby player legs and a stocky frame. They're not coming to see me as a female replacement. I find it's many of them that want to be the female replacement judging by the amount who turn up wearing their wife's knickers.

[James]

It is much like some of the comments made about young clients or Asian clients. If you don't run strict tests against who you will meet, you are more likely to encounter problems.