Truecaller App

[Guest]

Hey guys, does anybody else use "truecaller"? if we combine our catalogues of dodgy clients we might create an effective -time wasters- inventory.

let me know if you have experience with using the app

[James]

Its interesting how much information you can find by registering for this service but a lot of it is false as it effectively copies contact names and facebook names.

How would using it help us if the information it shares is not specific to us?

A similar app would be helpful if it were specific to bad customer numbers.

[Guest]

From what I heard many female sw use it and very often bad clients come up as "fake, tw, timewaster, dodgy". I personally very often save clients like that so I avoid them next time the call. So if all of us tag bad clients like that in our work phones and then upload our directories onto truecaller there are good chances we flag bad clients for other escorts too. I hope that makes sense

[James]

I am aware of that principle, indeed one of my TWs turned up as "ignore" when I searched true caller. But a lot can be lost in translation when dealing with the way we save contacts. Also, this doesn't stop other information predominating, as true caller is trying to determine a name. It knows me as "James Gay".

I suspect female sex workers use it in exactly the same way I would, I.e. to glean more information about callers rather than blacklist them.

[James]

Forgot to add. I am amazed that this app is considered legal for the UK market (maybe it isn't) given it essentially mines private contacts to determine and publish names. This is information that sex workers are not permitted to share publicly (either the names or full numbers) due to data protection regulations.

[Guest]

Yeah you are right about the legality. I felt really strange with the way it mines data :/ 

I just thought I ask around to see what other people think. Thanks for your feedback

 

[DrakeW]

Hey guys

 

Dunno what bit of legislation Theresa Dolores Umbridge May has added through parliament this time but I have just noticed that 'Sync.Me' and 'Truecaller' are now no longer available in the UK.

 

I know for a fact that these apps have proved really useful in verifying (75-80% of the time in my experience) the identity of any unsaved number which makes contact. It certainly went some way towards sorting out the punters from the timewasters, albeit with some degree of unreliablity.

 

Seems escorting in the UK is being made ever so slightly less straightforward.

[Ben Manchester]

15 hours ago, DrakeW said:

Dunno what bit of legislation Theresa Dolores Umbridge May has added through parliament this time but I have just noticed that 'Sync.Me' and 'Truecaller' are now no longer available in the UK.

1

I imagine the change has more to do with the EU's new GPDR legislation than our robotic supreme leader. Under this new legislation, the EU has the power to find international firms (rather than just EU firms) a large amount of their turnover for misusing private information. 

I agree this doesn't make things easier for escorts but then, at the same time, I do think citizens (including myself) are entitled to privacy so I believe GPDR is a good thing on the whole.

[James]

I wonder, then, if we are copying that aspect of EU legislation when we leave, or copying up until 2016. I am not up to speed on this.

Hopefully there is something that can be done afterwards, that doesn't confuse direct collection and use of data by corporates with voluntary submission of information collected by individuals, for collaborative use.

I had noticed the names on truecaller are now coming up behind a censor.

[SkinTrade]

On 5/19/2018 at 4:20 PM, James said:

I wonder, then, if we are copying that aspect of EU legislation when we leave, or copying up until 2016. I am not up to speed on this.

You'd have thought so? think again - this EU requirement is apparently required by ANYONE who collects data on EU citizens.

Not sure how the EU intends to enforce this across the entire planet?

Cross-border subpoena's perhaps? or even sanctions on trading privileges? I dunno, without going all UKIPPIE this feels rather "Evil Empire"!
 

The GDPR applies to any business that does one or both of the following:

• Offers products or services to citizens of the EU
• Collects personal information from citizens of the EU

Note that if you meet either of these criteria, it doesn’t matter where your business is located.

This means that a U.S.-based business that simply collects email addresses from EU citizens will be required to comply with the GDPR.

https://termsfeed.com/blog/gdpr-privacy-policy/#Who_the_GDPR_Applies_to



@DrakeW - I've just downloaded TrueCaller to my other device and it's still available in the Google Play store for Android.

Are you on iPhone?

[James]

Perhaps there is a workaround in providing a truecaller-like service as an open-source not for profit project.

Thus, it would not be a business, as regulated by data protection law.

The software underpinning the app could be repackaged for different peer groups who use it towards different ends.

[Ben Manchester]

30 minutes ago, James said:

Perhaps there is a workaround in providing a truecaller-like service as an open-source not for profit project.

2

The GDPR applies to all controllers or processors of personal data. It makes no difference if it is a company, a person or a group or whether or not it's for profit. There are some exceptions for organisations of fewer than 250 people, and some special types of organisations as well as government, but broadly speaking it applies to anyone who currently falls under the DPA. 

Self-employed individuals are required to follow most of the same rules as bigger businesses, though I imagine few escorts register with the ICO.

The GDPR is basically just an update of the DPA to reflect how data is used in today's world. Individuals have a few more rights than before, and there are some extra obligations on data controllers and processors, but there's no real reason to worry about it unless you're misusing people's data.

The only reason it's getting so much press, and that foreign companies are taking in a interest, is due to the increased penalties that come into effect from the 25th May. Businesses that spam by phone or email, or use people's data in underhand ways, are the main targets.

[James]

It could be hard to use this legislation against an open-source software developer when they are merely creating software with this capability and not putting it to use. The risk is thus on individuals or a collective with no formal organisation, hard to track and prosecute.

How this could be managed technically, I don't know. Would App store and Google publish such an app?

If a small group of friends or business associates agreed to use contact sharing software on their phones, at least one would need to provide data storage, which can't be harder to integrate than putting server credentials into an app on your phone.

At the simplest level, creating an syncing a contact file among a group of colleagues, but I'd want some kind of app to make this instantaneous.

[James]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ringya.contactbox

Features:

"* Organize contacts into sharable lists"

"* Update once for everyone"

" * Identify callers with contextual caller ID"

[James]

It looks like the above app doesn't provide live caller ID, when I listed my landline home number and called from it.

I had a look at Hiya and it is already identifying some of my client names, so our best bet for now is to delete Truecaller and download Hiya.

[Ben Manchester]

15 hours ago, James said:

It could be hard to use this legislation against an open-source software developer when they are merely creating software with this capability and not putting it to use. The risk is thus on individuals or a collective with no formal organisation, hard to track and prosecute.

 

Yes, you're probably right. You would have to find a way for users to sync their data without the developer providing servers or the processing rule would apply. Maybe the software could use Dropbox or the torrent mechanism. There would also need to be a method for syncing contacts between the app and the contacts in the phone in order for caller ID to work.

It's probably doable but would take a lot of work to make and bug test the software. Do you know any open source developers who would want to work on this? 

[James]

I'm not sure if the overlaid caller ID on Truecaller or Hiya is synced, as it comes up with new names for novel callers. Maybe I am confusing actual caller ID with data sent by the app in response to a phone call (typically 1 or 2 seconds after I receive the call).

That is the kind of feature I think would be useful.

[James]

No suggestions on the Hiya app now.

How will this effect spam blocking services like the telephone preference service, which collect without consent? Not regulated, I bet.

So to combat online anonymity, social media sites could be compelled to collect identity papers under a proposed model of European legislation. We have verification for viewing any porn in the UK. But lack of consent is now license to hide behind a phone number, which can already be owned without any kind of ID collection. Seems the age (level of threat posed) of the technology is somehow related to how governments seek to control its use. 

[SkinTrade]

On 5/22/2018 at 10:13 AM, Ben Manchester said:

Yes, you're probably right. You would have to find a way for users to sync their data without the developer providing servers or the processing rule would apply. Maybe the software could use Dropbox or the torrent mechanism. There would also need to be a method for syncing contacts between the app and the contacts in the phone in order for caller ID to work.

It's probably doable but would take a lot of work to make and bug test the software. Do you know any open source developers who would want to work on this? 

I'd be willing to put together a prototype application, shouldn't be too much of a challenge.

[James]

Thanks for looking into this. What would be useful is the ability to mass-submit selected existing contacts to a database, such as using a checkmark against an alphabetised list. The "existing" apps just save and copy the entire contacts list, which is unwieldy and unnecessary if you are saving numbers for a single purpose.

[SkinTrade]

I'm having read at the GDPR guidance issued by "Neighbourhood Watch" to its members - this may be very similar to the sort of tactics we as sex workers may wish to follow in regards to collecting and sharing information on risky punters...

https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/knowledge/data-protection-guidance-incorporating-gdpr/

 

[TobyFoxx]

I posted about this a week or two ago - there is an app that replaces Truecallers functionality and improves on it. It's called ClientEye and it enables sexworkers to report bad clients, and to look up numbers to see if there are any reports. It can also be set to automatically check calls and texts as they come in. It works well and has flagged up a few bad clients for me, but it needs more guys adding reports to be fully effective

Full details here: